Comments on: How Big is Higher Education? http://facultysenate.blogs.unr.edu/2009/01/17/how-big-is-higher-education/ A blog for the University of Nevada, Reno faculty to share ideas and opinions with the Faculty Senate and each other. Sun, 22 Nov 2009 20:57:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Patrick http://facultysenate.blogs.unr.edu/2009/01/17/how-big-is-higher-education/#comment-1482 Patrick Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:30:23 +0000 http://facultysenate.blogs.unr.edu/?p=44#comment-1482 Also the 49% cut is a cut in general fund appropriations, just a portion of the total budget appropriations to UNR. Also the 49% cut is a cut in general fund appropriations, just a portion of the total budget appropriations to UNR.

]]> By: Patrick http://facultysenate.blogs.unr.edu/2009/01/17/how-big-is-higher-education/#comment-1481 Patrick Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:29:03 +0000 http://facultysenate.blogs.unr.edu/?p=44#comment-1481 In regards to General Fund spending per capita the data I had only went back to the mid 90s the calculation you reference was prior to the December 1 economic forum update. When going from the mid 90s to today using the new numbers we see a large rise and then a fall (just as your graph does) and the per capita amount is slightly below just a decade ago. Buckley's assertions were essentially incorrect until now (to be fair to her, she used data that was different from the Economic Forum). And yes, it was adjusted for inflation using the CPI (probably to 2007 when it was done earlier last year). Yes General Fund spending per capita is down since 1974 but so is the importance of the general fund I bet. Meaning that Nevada has increased other fund sources since that time. If you happen to get that data from Andrew Clinger (total budget appropriations and total general fund appropriations) please send it along. I bet you will find that over time per overall per capita funding is not down (and I disagree that this even matters: http://npri.org/publications/backsliding-from-the-abacus) and I also bet the general fund grows smaller and smaller as a percentage of the total budget over time. Thus looking only at general fund appropriations may be a poor way of examining government revenue. Just like saying Nevada's residential tax burden as a percentage of per capita income is a deceptive statistic. Also, I have not looked at higher ed funding in regards to an alleged economy of scale advantage. I looked at K-12 funding and a state's population size, again no statistically significant relationship. Both the r2 and adjusted r2 were pretty close to 0. In regards to General Fund spending per capita the data I had only went back to the mid 90s the calculation you reference was prior to the December 1 economic forum update. When going from the mid 90s to today using the new numbers we see a large rise and then a fall (just as your graph does) and the per capita amount is slightly below just a decade ago. Buckley’s assertions were essentially incorrect until now (to be fair to her, she used data that was different from the Economic Forum). And yes, it was adjusted for inflation using the CPI (probably to 2007 when it was done earlier last year).

Yes General Fund spending per capita is down since 1974 but so is the importance of the general fund I bet. Meaning that Nevada has increased other fund sources since that time. If you happen to get that data from Andrew Clinger (total budget appropriations and total general fund appropriations) please send it along. I bet you will find that over time per overall per capita funding is not down (and I disagree that this even matters: http://npri.org/publications/backsliding-from-the-abacus) and I also bet the general fund grows smaller and smaller as a percentage of the total budget over time.

Thus looking only at general fund appropriations may be a poor way of examining government revenue. Just like saying Nevada’s residential tax burden as a percentage of per capita income is a deceptive statistic.

Also, I have not looked at higher ed funding in regards to an alleged economy of scale advantage. I looked at K-12 funding and a state’s population size, again no statistically significant relationship. Both the r2 and adjusted r2 were pretty close to 0.

]]> By: Patrick http://facultysenate.blogs.unr.edu/2009/01/17/how-big-is-higher-education/#comment-1480 Patrick Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:15:40 +0000 http://facultysenate.blogs.unr.edu/?p=44#comment-1480 Dr. Parker, The relationship between a states population and the size of its workforce as a percentage of its population is not significant; in fact there doesn’t appear statistical relationship. I used the same data you did. The correlation coefficient alone (-3.8677014162374E-10) suggests we'd have to add 2.5 billion residents to reduce the size of government as a percentage of population by 1 percentage point - hardly an economy of scale advantage. As far as the 36 percent cuts are concerned, yes that is big. But the growth in appropriations for NSHE has also been massive. We’re talking about 10.5 percent growth per year since 2001-2002. A 36 percent cut is deceptively large when we toss how exactly how fast NSHE has been growing over the last few years. Dr. Parker,

The relationship between a states population and the size of its workforce as a percentage of its population is not significant; in fact there doesn’t appear statistical relationship. I used the same data you did. The correlation coefficient alone (-3.8677014162374E-10) suggests we’d have to add 2.5 billion residents to reduce the size of government as a percentage of population by 1 percentage point - hardly an economy of scale advantage.

As far as the 36 percent cuts are concerned, yes that is big. But the growth in appropriations for NSHE has also been massive. We’re talking about 10.5 percent growth per year since 2001-2002. A 36 percent cut is deceptively large when we toss how exactly how fast NSHE has been growing over the last few years.

]]> By: elliott http://facultysenate.blogs.unr.edu/2009/01/17/how-big-is-higher-education/#comment-1416 elliott Sat, 24 Jan 2009 05:45:09 +0000 http://facultysenate.blogs.unr.edu/?p=44#comment-1416 Dear Patrick, By the way, I have been meaning to ask a question, and as an employee of NPRI you might be able to explain. A few weeks ago, Ty Cobb showed me a graph he received from NPRI showing real Nevada state government expenditures per capita, and it showed dramatic growth over the last couple of decades, with the caption of something "Enough is enough!" I'll find it in my files if you don't know the one. When I calculated the same thing, however, the trend was pretty flat. See Figure 1(B) in my Jan. 1 memo at http://www.business.unr.edu/faculty/parker/Parker_memo_1-1-2009.pdf. How did you calculate that graph you sent him? It looks to me like you forgot to adjust for inflation. I used the CPI. What did you use? Thanks, Elliott Dear Patrick,

By the way, I have been meaning to ask a question, and as an employee of NPRI you might be able to explain.

A few weeks ago, Ty Cobb showed me a graph he received from NPRI showing real Nevada state government expenditures per capita, and it showed dramatic growth over the last couple of decades, with the caption of something “Enough is enough!” I’ll find it in my files if you don’t know the one.

When I calculated the same thing, however, the trend was pretty flat. See Figure 1(B) in my Jan. 1 memo at http://www.business.unr.edu/faculty/parker/Parker_memo_1-1-2009.pdf. How did you calculate that graph you sent him? It looks to me like you forgot to adjust for inflation. I used the CPI. What did you use?

Thanks,
Elliott

]]> By: Elliott Parker http://facultysenate.blogs.unr.edu/2009/01/17/how-big-is-higher-education/#comment-1415 Elliott Parker Sat, 24 Jan 2009 05:25:28 +0000 http://facultysenate.blogs.unr.edu/?p=44#comment-1415 Regarding the question of whether or not there is a correlation between the size of a state and the size, please see Figure 1 in my Dec. 1 memo, at http://www.business.unr.edu/faculty/parker/Parker_memo_12-1-2008rev.pdf. Tell me if you discern a trend. Regarding the correlation between state public enrollment and the cost of higher education per student, I have an unpublished graph I sent to Regent Knecht that shows a similar trend. If you just look at averages, the smallest ten states have an average cost that is 30% higher per student than it is for the largest ten states. I explained to Regent Knecht why I think that exists. The data I used is on my website. Calculate it yourself. Finally, I am NOT asking the state to increase our budget. I am asking them to please not CUT it, especially not by 36% (49.8% on UNR's main campus). Is the distinction so hard to understand? We are making good progress as a university, and this will destroy us if it is implemented as the Governor proposed. I believe with all my heart in the value of public higher education. It is not my pocketbook I care about, it is my university. I, like others, compete in a national marketplace, and I am sure I would land on my feet elsewhere. But I love this place and don't want to leave it, and I don't want our best faculty to leave either. Regarding the question of whether or not there is a correlation between the size of a state and the size, please see Figure 1 in my Dec. 1 memo, at http://www.business.unr.edu/faculty/parker/Parker_memo_12-1-2008rev.pdf. Tell me if you discern a trend.

Regarding the correlation between state public enrollment and the cost of higher education per student, I have an unpublished graph I sent to Regent Knecht that shows a similar trend. If you just look at averages, the smallest ten states have an average cost that is 30% higher per student than it is for the largest ten states. I explained to Regent Knecht why I think that exists. The data I used is on my website. Calculate it yourself.

Finally, I am NOT asking the state to increase our budget. I am asking them to please not CUT it, especially not by 36% (49.8% on UNR’s main campus). Is the distinction so hard to understand? We are making good progress as a university, and this will destroy us if it is implemented as the Governor proposed.

I believe with all my heart in the value of public higher education. It is not my pocketbook I care about, it is my university. I, like others, compete in a national marketplace, and I am sure I would land on my feet elsewhere. But I love this place and don’t want to leave it, and I don’t want our best faculty to leave either.

]]> By: Patrick http://facultysenate.blogs.unr.edu/2009/01/17/how-big-is-higher-education/#comment-1413 Patrick Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:23:42 +0000 http://facultysenate.blogs.unr.edu/?p=44#comment-1413 Now now, Dr. Parker, we both know there is no statistically significant relationship between a state's population and its government labor force as a percentage of total population - thus, we both know state's don't take advantage of economies of scale. Besides, most of the statistics you refer to in arguing we need to spend more assumes the very point in question, this is a fallacy. Now now, Dr. Parker, we both know there is no statistically significant relationship between a state’s population and its government labor force as a percentage of total population - thus, we both know state’s don’t take advantage of economies of scale.

Besides, most of the statistics you refer to in arguing we need to spend more assumes the very point in question, this is a fallacy.

]]> By: Justin Zabriskie http://facultysenate.blogs.unr.edu/2009/01/17/how-big-is-higher-education/#comment-1395 Justin Zabriskie Fri, 23 Jan 2009 05:15:41 +0000 http://facultysenate.blogs.unr.edu/?p=44#comment-1395 It is no wonder that Nevada's system of higher education received failing grades across the board from the National Center of Public Policy and Higher Education in 2008. The disappointing element to this discussion is the apathy or ignorance held about the entire situation from students and citizens in the community. Most students don't realize how this can affect their education and their experience here at UNR and a lack of defense for the NSHE ensues. Students who are disenfranchised by the breadth of the UNR student body and by politics in general will wallow in ignorance and cause the minority of students who actually care to suffer by the majority's inaction. That is, unless, as you have stated that this proposition don't come to pass. Maybe there is a relation between this apathetic sentiment and a recent headline from a Reno-Gazette paper: " What's Reno's newest dubious distinction? No. 1 DRINKING TOWN". Regardless, I appreciate your article Professor Parker and will share it with others to gain support for the university's future. Official Education Report: http://nevadasagebrush.com/multimedia/NV.pdf http://nevadasagebrush.com/blog/2009/01/20/report-nevada-earns-failing-grades-in-higher-ed/ It is no wonder that Nevada’s system of higher education received failing grades across the board from the National Center of Public Policy and Higher Education in 2008. The disappointing element to this discussion is the apathy or ignorance held about the entire situation from students and citizens in the community. Most students don’t realize how this can affect their education and their experience here at UNR and a lack of defense for the NSHE ensues. Students who are disenfranchised by the breadth of the UNR student body and by politics in general will wallow in ignorance and cause the minority of students who actually care to suffer by the majority’s inaction. That is, unless, as you have stated that this proposition don’t come to pass.

Maybe there is a relation between this apathetic sentiment and a recent headline from a Reno-Gazette paper: ” What’s Reno’s newest dubious distinction? No. 1 DRINKING TOWN”.

Regardless, I appreciate your article Professor Parker and will share it with others to gain support for the university’s future.

Official Education Report:
http://nevadasagebrush.com/multimedia/NV.pdf
http://nevadasagebrush.com/blog/2009/01/20/report-nevada-earns-failing-grades-in-higher-ed/

]]> By: Joel M. Lippert http://facultysenate.blogs.unr.edu/2009/01/17/how-big-is-higher-education/#comment-1376 Joel M. Lippert Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:32:13 +0000 http://facultysenate.blogs.unr.edu/?p=44#comment-1376 I took a class in college called "Creative Statistics" (can't remember if it was a pol.sci or marketing requirement, but I digress) so I have never been one to believe, on first glance, any statistic. Even good people get caught up in wanting to prove their point and can mold numbers to suit their cause. Then there's Gov. Gibbons. He must have a banana stuck in his ear cause he sure isn't listening to any voice of reason thinking that under-educated citizens are going to be able to help Nevada, or the country, or the world, solve any sort of problem that we now (or will later) face. Is he trying to follow GDub's legacy as going down in Nevada history as our worst Governor? I can't imagine it is an easy job for anyone, and sometimes hard choices have to be made, but to make stupid choices when all around you are screaming, "What, are you nuts?" is, well, stupid and arrogant. I took a class in college called “Creative Statistics” (can’t remember if it was a pol.sci or marketing requirement, but I digress) so I have never been one to believe, on first glance, any statistic. Even good people get caught up in wanting to prove their point and can mold numbers to suit their cause. Then there’s Gov. Gibbons. He must have a banana stuck in his ear cause he sure isn’t listening to any voice of reason thinking that under-educated citizens are going to be able to help Nevada, or the country, or the world, solve any sort of problem that we now (or will later) face. Is he trying to follow GDub’s legacy as going down in Nevada history as our worst Governor? I can’t imagine it is an easy job for anyone, and sometimes hard choices have to be made, but to make stupid choices when all around you are screaming, “What, are you nuts?” is, well, stupid and arrogant.

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